OK, as many of you have probably figured out by now, I am insane. And a bit of a perfectionist. My 80 has had a very NOISY transmission as long as I've had it. Plus it did not want to shift into or out of first gear. And I noticed a few broken teeth on the pulley gear and first reduction gear last year. Yet it worked fine. But...it....was....LOUD. I couldn't make myself leave it alone.

So it began about a week ago. Pulled it out of my oversized carport into the shop. And began wrenching.


Here it is with a few parts removed already


I pulled off the pony for an unrelated problem. It started knocking, I don't know what I screwed up yet!!!


The pulley gear is missing a couple half teeth. I've got a NOS replacement! I love Ebay.


I got the first reduction gear cover off. What a PAIN...the hydraulic oil lines make a VERY tight fit.


A chipped first reduction gear. It is also LOOSE on the sliding gear shaft. G-R-E-A-T


Removed the flywheel!


The VERY large crank and woodruff key slots


The first speed gears


The screwed up splines on the sliding gear shaft. The sixth speed gear would NOT come off until my dad used a large puller+impact wrench+torch!! And bad threads too. I made 'em even worse beating the shaft out. I'm fairly certain that I can use a shaft out of an 820 or later as long as I get different bearings and a retainer. Has anyone else done this?


The removed sliding gear shaft, bearings, etc.

So far I've found that the bearings on the sliding gear shaft and countershaft are loose-too much movement. Plus the loose first reduction gear and bad teeth. AND a loose differential drive gear. I haven't removed it yet. Hopefully these are making all the noise. I can't go into the differential or final drive. We have to roll the tractor back out of the shop!

And the first gear detent spring+pawl are rusted and sticking. That would cause my first gear sticking problems! I also have to dig one spring and pawl out of the transmission somewhere. I forgot to lock it in place and it flew in!

This post...My adventure from last week!!

My next post, the adventure of this weekend....Tearing apart a model DI! FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brandon

Wow, looks like you had a fun weekend. Tearing apart a DI definately sounds fun .

I'll bet you have had just about all the fun you can stand for one week.

JEEEEZZZZZ When you do it you do it dont ya-
Nothing like jumping in with both feet!!!

Good thing the 80 and the DI dont have similar parts or else you could end up with a

D80I

Or heck maybe even a diesel DI!!!

Or a pony powered DI!!!

The possibilities are endless-

One thing thats nice to have when working on one of the big standards is a Cherry Picker- EVERTHING has to be handled with one of those!!!

If there's any chance R parts would be same I have the transmission goodies from a parts R. I'm sure you have parts books for both and if you find that they are same let me know. These shafts and gears look very good.

Bob

Well, I should update this, maybe?

OK, here is a bit of information that I posted separately on the board back in 2006!!!!! (original thread), but forgot to add here:

As I've been tearing apart my 80 I found that the counter shaft is worn where the differential drive gear rides., and the splines on the gear were worn as well, allowing quite a bit of radial movement.


The old shaft


The old gear

I bought what almost looks like a NOS gear from one source, and another used shaft from Sharps. The shaft from Sharps is in quite a bit better shape, but it still does have wear in the same area. It stilll would allow some radial movement of the gear. I don't plan on plowing 400 acres a year when I get done, but I guess I hate to do all this work, and still have some movement there.

Well, after a bit of debate, I shipped the shaft out to Mike Williams....in DECEMBER of 2006!

Brandon

Now that it is January of 2008, guess what came in the mail? A bill for $450 and my shaft!



Here is a before and after comparison:



MUCH better. It looks weird in the pic, but pretty much all the wear was in the one spot in the middle, and that is well taken care of. The gear feels tight on the shaft.

For the curious, yes, it took a year to get my shaft back from Mike Williams. He had family issues that I knew about, so while my patience was tried very hard, I do understand.

I hope to start tinkering again this weekend!

Brandon

Hey Brandon,
Great news, huh. I can't wait to see you get it all together and running again. I hope this takes care of all the noise in the tranny. But what about the pony? Did you get that done as well? Good luck on all of that.

BTW, what about the color of IPB any chance of getting that changed to green?

Butch,

The pony is still sitting on the bench. I haven't even opened it up...which seems dumb...but I've got WAY too much taken apart, parts all over, and I'm afraid I'll start loosing things if I open up the pony too.

I don't understand your color question...are you talking about this message board? You'd have to ask Byron about that one. We tried green once, but I think it was too hard to read for many of the people here.

Brandon

A small update.

Just did some "test fitting" on the countershaft, and I am REALLY glad that I did.


The assembled shaft and the assorted gears. The extra is the old worn differential drive gear that I replaced.

The gears for the main shaft (where it was repaired) slid on just fine. The sixth speed gear (on the far right) decided to NOT go back on. I dunno why, to tell the truth, I can't remember for sure if it came off easily when I disassembled it. I THOUGHT it did. These splines were not touched by the machine shop.

Now that I think about it...it took quite a bit of pounding to get the bearings unseated...I might have mushroomed the shaft? But after ALOT of filing on the splines (only the last 1/16th of an inch or so), the gear goes on and slides freely. It needs to move to shift in and out of sixth.



Yes, there is quite a bit of gear grinding evident, where someone tried to speed shift into sixth. It wasn't ME! But the teeth are otherwise fine, and I'm not gonna worry about it.

Another picture, with the bearings, which leads to another story:



I checked Deere for all the bearings I needed in this project...they had all but one: JD8193 (it's marked Timken 39589). I searched all OVER for a Timken 39589 and couldn't find one anywhere, I even went to our local industrial bearing supplier with no luck. It's not even on the Timken website. I asked the local supplier to get me something that would fit/function, but they REFUSED for legal reasons. THAT made me a bit angry. After a whole lot of digging on the web I found some 39589 bearings for about $150 a piece. Um, no. SO...I found that a #39590 bearing has the same dimensions. I made a phone call to the local supplier again, and it seems the 39589 and 90 bearings also have the same radial and thrust load ratings (I wrote it down, but who knows where it is now). I don't know what the difference is, but it sure seems that it would work. So I ordered and received a 39590 bearing and the matching 39520 cup for about $20! It's a common truck wheel bearing.

A whole lot of effort just to find a simple bearing. And no I couldn't reuse the old one...it was destroyed trying to get the shaft out!

And funnily, I just had a brainstorm, thinking, did I ever check with Greg Stephen? No. Man, I can be stupid. So I just looked at his website and searched for the bearing, and it seems he has it. I emailed for a price out of curiosity. Yes, I told him I was just curious, though I'm checking for another part too.

Brandon

Oh, I nearly forgot!

As I disassembled the tractor, I found that the first reduction gear was loose (and missing teeth). I promptly found out that its shaft (sliding gear shaft) had gotten beat up in the process; the splines were so twisted that it was VERY hard to remove the sixth speed gear that was behind it...I'm talking the full use of a puller, torch and hammer! So long story short, I found another shaft and first reduction gear from Sharps. This was from an 820 however...and this shaft is one thing that did change from the 80 to the 820. The only difference is in the bearings. The 820 has a wider bearing on the left side...since I was getting new bearings, this was no big deal. I also decided to buy the later bearing retainer...just to be safe. I should compare the 80 vs 820 retainer, now that I have both. I'd be willing to bet the 820 retainer is the same thing...just thinner in width to make up for the different bearing.

I still need to run a tap over the threads on the "new to me" shaft. The nut is a B1916R, which lists as 12 threads per inch. I borrowed a 12TPI die, but it doesn't seem to be going very well. Can anyone confirm that it's 1 inch, 12TPI?

Yes this project has turned into an expensive fiasco. I knew it would, and if things would start going right, I might enjoy myself more. Heck I like it anyway.

Brandon

Hmm, letsee, updates...

I had to repair the threads on the sliding gear shaft. Some work with a thread file and the proper tap, and the new nut I purchased now goes on! The threads don't look pretty, but it works!

I also found that the first reduction gear has a small amount of radial movement on the sliding gear shaft. I thought I checked it before (and I did!) but I accidentally checked it, and had the gear on too far...on the unworn splines. I'm thinking I'm going to rig it somehow, or at worst, live with it.

I installed the countershaft and gears...FINALLY.

First I had to heat up the bearing to get it on the shaft.


It dropped right on! I didn't have to use the press!

I'll tell ya, getting the countershaft in, and then sliding all the gears in place, while still moving the shaft through is a major PAIN in the ARSE.







But I did it. The bearing cone and cup are on in the right side. I need to get the snap ring in, then work on the left side. I HATE snap rings.

Brandon

Wow, you've got some great progress. This is a fun read, keep us posted. I can't wait to hear how it goes on your first test run.

Good work Brandon

In '98 I rebuilt the transmission on my AW , so I know about snap-rings too

Gee, do you think I should update this thread? This project turned into a pandora's box of issues...and everytime I'd hit a big one, it really took away a lot of my motivation to work on the tractor.

On last update, I had installed the countershaft in the tractor. I was getting ready to install the sliding gear shaft when I found a problem...

The shaft was a "good" replacement from an 820, but I realized that it too had some spline wear, where the first reduction gear rides, allowing the gear a small amount of rotational slop. I really didn't want to let this go, as it would only get worse with time, and I've put too much into this thing to go halfway. I can't blame the supplier (Sharps) at all...the wear was minimal, and you can only expect so much from 50 year old used parts. When I finally noticed this, the project ground to a halt until I could remotivate myself and find someone to fix it! I luckily ran across a local machine shop that could weld up the splines and machine it back, so I gave the shaft and gears to him. This is what I got back!


Looks good!

In the meantime, I had also traveled to the big JD tractor show in New York, listening to one of the lectures by Albert Ulrich. I asked about the 80 transmission, and he suggested installing the shafts and bearings, with no gears, so the endplay in the bearings could be set properly with no interference. The reason he recommends that, is that he also recommends setting the endplay as tight as possible...but with no binding while rotating. In other words, no endplay, nor preload. The manual recommends .001-.004.

What he said made sense (and he has much more experience than I!), so sometime afterwards, I proceeded to remove the countershaft AGAIN. That sorta sucked. But with that accomplished, starting in early December or so, I installed all the bearings on the shafts...using our woodburner as a bearing heater!


Both shafts and bearings, on the bench

I then put both shafts in the tractor, and went about setting the endplay. This took the better part of a week, tinkering an hour here and there before or after work. Since I was going on the TIGHT side, and the shims that I had weren't "adjustable" enough, I ended up making quite a few shims for the bearings out of .001 aluminum shim stock. Allright, I stole aluminum foil out of the kitchen and used a razor knife to make shims.


Setting the endplay

I ended up going for just a LITTLE endplay, instead of none, as I was paranoid of going too tight, especially since I was setting these clearances in 20 degree weather.

While I had the shafts out of the tractor, I decided to check the endplay of the differential while it was accessible. I found that instead of the book tolerance of .001 to .004, it had somewhere around .050 to .060 endplay...


Checking the differential endplay, hanging upside down to do it.

I can't fix the differential right now, and I'm not going to worry TOO much at this point. That requires ripping off the rear of the tractor, I can't do that just yet.

I'll post more updates later! Lots of things have been accomplished

Brandon

The bearing retainers sitting on the bench, shims all set for the clearance of .001 or actually less

Once the endplay was set where I needed it to be, I pulled the left side bearings back off the shafts....then installed the shafts and gears in the tractor...

Which is as "fun" and "exciting" as it sounds. Allright, it wasn't too bad...just a bit of heavy lifting and reaching through a small access hole!


The shafts and gears in the tractor

Getting the left side bearings in place...while the shafts were IN the tractor was a bit of a challenge. The first try was not successful, and the bearing cooled off too much to go on all the way. Stuck halfway, I had to pull it back off...luckily without damaging it. It was out on the shaft JUST enough to get the bearing splitter behind it...if I had some homemade shims behind the bearing to save the race from getting tweaked.


My rigged puller setup

I ended up heating the bearings on the woodburner, while sandwiched between two thick pieces of steel plate (to keep it hot) and then played "Hot POTATO" while running it to the carport, and slipping the bearings on the shaft before they cooled. Quite fun! But it worked. Both shafts/gears and all bearings were now in place!


Safety wired and bolt plated bearing retainers


Next came the transmission lube line...


I had to use a combo of air and wire to clean out gunk that was plugging up the small passages

I also decided to take a look at the big ole diesel while it was accessible.


The crankcase


The engine has the original 80 connecting rods

I'm still debating whether I want to check clearances or not. I know I SHOULD. But I'm scared.

Next I needed to start working on the shifters. At disassembly, I found that the 1st speed shifter pawl/spring was severely rusted...which made sense, since 1st gear would ALWAYS get stuck. So to me that was obviously the problem. I also removed the 6th speed shifter pawl and spring to find the same problem there. Both of these are under retaining bolts...which can let in moisture. The rest of the gears are all hidden inside the main case, and free from this problem.


The rusty sixth gear spring and pawl (retainer on the left)

I cleaned up the spring/pawl and the bore, and reinstalled the retaining bolt. For good measure, for both the first and sixth speeds, I squeezed in a bit of grease to keep it lubed, AND I used liquid teflon on the threads to hopefully keep moisture out. Yeah, I went a little overkill?

Strangely enough after installing the first gear shifter shaft, (luckily I TRIED it)...first gear would STILL NOT SHIFT. I thought I'd found the problem, but obviously not! A little investigation and messing around showed that the shifting rod/linkage was free in neutral, but bound TIGHT when shifting into first gear. What in the world?

After a little more messing around, I began polishing the shifter shaft...noticing quite a mark in it:


The first gear shifter shaft and odd mark (between the detents)

Although this mark didn't catch my fingernail, it seemed to me that it had to be mushroomed. I ended up taking out the shaft and doing MAJOR polishing and sanding. I was using the shifter to check the bore, and no matter what, it would STILL bind. At that point I broke out the grinder and flapper wheel. Still being gentle and not removing much, I was making progress...but it was STILL binding in the tractor. I finally removed the shifting fork off the end to do more polishing....eventually I FINALLY noticed that the shaft hadn't been mushroomed....it had been BENT. I should have noticed!


The shaft had a BIT of a bend

Clamping the shaft in a vice and delivering a few smacks with the big ole hammer straightened it right out! I was a bit mad for wasting quite a bit of time trying to fix a problem I didn't have. The shaft had fit fine in the case until it tried to slide to the right (to shift into gear). Then it hit the bend and began to bind.

A few nights later I got in a big ole hurry and installed all the shifters/shifter shafts! It wasn't too bad of a process...just follow the book. I checked all the springs and bores visually, all were plenty stiff, no obviously weak springs to me. Everything went smoothy....I had to do some thinking to figure out how to get it all together...I used lots of washers as shims to keep the shifting pawls backed off so everything slid easily...UNTIL the LAST shifter. This was the shifter RIGHT in the middle (4th and 5th gear) and there is NO wiggle room, and apparently no room to even insert it. I was tempted to use the smash and bash method (it is 20 degrees or less at this point). I finally figured a way...I moved the first gear shifter ALL the way to the left, as well as the 2nd/reverse shifter, and jammed the 4/5 shifter in place...but it was still not on the gear it needed to move...but very close. To get enough wiggle room for that, I had to move the gears around...basically putting the tractor into third gear and reverse at the same time and just BARELY managed to get the fork onto the gear...but it all worked out.


The filled transmission case!


Lock plated shifter shafts

OK quite a few very overdue updates. I have to catch up on a few things...

While working on the transmission, I had decided to look at the connecting rods (since the cover was right there and accessible) What I found is basically summed up here: http://www.johnnypopper.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17399

With that found, I DID polish the crank on the left connecting rod journal, to smooth out the high spots, and threw in a set of standard main bearings. I also threw in a set of connecting rod bolts, which in hindsight was kinda stupid. They were also used (Albert Ulrich) but I was overly worried about mine being overtorqued. Yes, I know it was stupid, but it's done.

The polished left journal:



It's not PERFECTLY polished out, but I didn't want to go too crazy, besides the fact that I was beat trying to work the crank down with various grades of fine sandpaper and crocus cloth.


One of the new standard bearings. Don't worry, I liberally used engine oil on everything at assembly. At the temps I was working, the Rotella 15W40 was like a very thick honey.

One of the big jobs I've put off on this project was the belt pulley. The drive gear had broken teeth (and was torched off) The drive pin, and corresponding hole in the clutch collar also had some wear, allowing things to twist (one of the long bolts had a slight bend due to this I imagine), and I wanted to fix it while everything was accessible. This weekend I finally got around to it.

First, I got brave and drilled out the clutch collar


Centered VERY carefully and clamped tight in the drill press


Drilled out the elongated hole to 3/4 of an inch


The bushing is from McMaster carr. It is 3/4 outer diameter with a 5/8 inner to match the new pin also in the pic

I ATTEMPTED to take an oversized OD bushing on the lathe, to turn it down, to leave a "step" for more security against falling out, but I guess I didn't get it in the lathe right, the machining was off center, so I pitched that idea (only had one) and went with a straight diameter bushing.

The bushing was a light press fit (hammered in) and I coated it with red locktite beforehand. I had to liberally open up the bushing with drilling/rattail file to get it to slide smoothly over the old pin (I didn't do the new pin yet, I didn't want to change too many variables in the fit/not fit situation)

I then removed the old pin.

Simple right? Not really. Took a grade 8 bolt of the proper diameter and length, cut the head off, and welded it to the old pin. Then with a piece of steel and a bolt threaded onto the bolt/pin I tried to "pull" it out. Due to my craptastic welding skills (and bad metal prep on my part) I broke my welds...two or three times? lost count) But I finally got the pin out. Those things are REALLY in there.



The new pin had been in the freezer for a few hours at this point. I retrieved it, and it was quickly/easily inserted with a heavy hammer.



The new pin and bushing. I decided to leave the bushing "long". Won't hurt anything, and makes it last a little longer.

The next project would be to put on the NOS drive gear (thank you EBAY)

The drive gear was heated up to a good 300 degrees on the woodburner, while I blocked up the pulley on the press. Due to tips from an older Two Cylinder Mag, I supported the CENTER of the pulley, as the forces can break the pulley if you just let it set on the rim.

I got the gear down to the shed and started pressing, the gear moved on....but I quickly ran into a problem....I was stupid and used a block of wood against the pulley, and the rim of the pulley began to dig into the wood instead of pressing the gear on.


Dee You Emm DUMB

I had to rearrange the "blocking" and get rid of the wood. Of course this allowed the gear to cool and not press very well at all. I got out the torch and carefully heated up the gear the best I could (not glowing or anything, just trying to heat it) Did that, and was able to press the gear on, though it was pushing the 20 ton cylinder to it's limits towards the end!


The gear/pulley in the press


Up against the snap ring. This snap ring was a ROYAL pain to find, as my original had been torched, and it's not a "standard" thickness, but I finally got one from a salvage yard.


The new gear is ON

After that, I assembled all the clutch linkages, toggles, dog bones, and the roller bearings, etc. I still used my old parts, as they acted fine, and I CAN get to them, if necessary, later. Everything was packed with lots of sticky high temp grease.

After the pulley was assembled, I began the adventure of putting on the first reduction gear cover. I KNEW this was going to be a pain, and I was right. I honestly had no idea how I managed to get it OFF in the first place! It's a big heavy hunk of cast iron, I had prepainted it, and had the gasket precemented to it....which in hindsight was a mistake.

The cover is big and heavy, which is bad enough, but it has to be handled around the crankshaft, the first reduction gear, the hydrualic lines, AND the fact that the cover doesn't go just AROUND the big reduction gear...it goes partially BEHIND it...due to the placement of oil fillers (meaning a portion is smaller than the gear it fits over). Well, you can't bend the cover over the gear, and you can't bend the gear It takes a whole lot of finagling, and a whole lot of cussing, especially when someone RIPS the gasket trying to go around the gear that can't be moved.

I was going to attempt to make another gasket out of posterboard, but the board from the store was an INCH too short. So I gooped up the gasket I had....luckily it was not ripped in a leak prone area....at the top, and at one of the oil filler holes. THIS time I cemented it to the main case, like I should have the first time, then fought the cover for a good half hour at the last time. I had the hydraulic lines wedged "up" as far as I could go, and fought with different angles 'til the cover managed to bend around everything. Once again, I'm still not sure how. Tightened up all the bolts (of about three different lengths in places)

Then, since my back needed a break very badly, I reinstalled the first gear cover. I had done this once before, but redid it. The first time, I made the gasket...but my paper wasn't large enough and had to split it. I got larger paper and did it again with one gasket.


The first gear cover

I also repainted a few areas that are hidden by the flywheel. They hadn't been painted at the factory, and had some grease there as well.


I should note that the crankcase cover is back on as well, with a homemade gasket as well, since my NOS set had shrunk BADLY, and the cork didn't take well to "stretching". I had that problem a lot with this set of gaskets. Well, I got what I paid for.

I also have new bolts and crudely homemade lockplates in the crank oil slinger. I had loosened it to check the left main clearance a while before...but couldn't remove it due to use of silicone. It was severely glued on!. The original lockplates were falling apart so I took some scrap steel and made them....WAY too thick, and very hacked up looking, but it should work.

The last job of the weekend was putting on the belt pulley, which turned out to be WAY too hard for my liking. First, had to make the gasket for the pulley dust shield (shrunken gasket again)...which was no problem

Got the dust shield on, but loose, then installed the pulley. It would NOT turn. Severe binding. Tapping things back and forth did not help much. So off came the pulley. And back on, and off, and on. and off. Trying different things. Polished up the dust shield. No go. Took a file to knock off burrs on any corners. Still no go. Sometimes it would spin, but it was still spinning WAY too hard.

Took the dust shield back off, and tried JUST the pulley, and everything was fine. So something was binding in the shield, of course. Straightened out a few bent parts, but it didn't help much.

Pulley on and off a few more times, before I got the bright idea of setting the pulley down on the ground...taking OFF the shield, and trying it in the pulley THAT way. Quickly found the problem...

THE PULLEY is BENT.

Just slightly in ONE spot, it is bent in, JUST enough to bind things up (probably not even a 16th of an inch). I don't remember dropping it. Not sure if it was like that before...but in the intervening time I've had it apart, who knows!? I considered trying to bend it back out, which seems about impossible, due to the thickness. Not enough room to hammer it out. So I went the EASY route....I slowly filed on the inside of the rim, trying the pulley and cover on the tractor multiple times until it rotates freely.

So now that my back and arms are sore, the pulley is ON the tractor!






I overgreased the bearing...just a LITTLE. Oops.